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Historia e Shqiptarėve Historia kombėtare shqiptare dhe ajo botėrore ndėr shekuj.

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i vjetėr 29-11-2013, 00:25   #1
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Gjendja bazė Epir, emri i vjetėr i Shqipėrisė


Post Pyrrus, Achillis filius, amisso per absentiam Troianis temporibus paterno regno in his locis consedit: qui Pyrridae primo, postea Epirotae dicti sunt.

₪₪₪₪ Julianus ₪₪₪


Jo vetem Julianus, por dhe Straboni dhe Plutarku, deshmojne, qe Epiri e morri emrin nga Pirro i biri i Akilit, qė erdhi dhe u vendos ne kete vend , menjehere pas luftes se Trojes. Shteti i pare i Epirit quhej Molosi, qe shtrihet aty ku eshte Myzeqeja sot(sipas Gjon Muzakit) dhe ne gjuhen shqipe do te thote PYLLORIA, qe ndoshta jo per rastesi, rrenja e saj perputhet perkatesisht me fjalet Latine dhe Italiane:

Arbor(Lat)—-Arbėria

Albero(It)—-Albania

Vete fjala Phyrrus ka shume gjasa te jete shqiptuar PYLL-us, qe simbolizon njeriun e PYJEVE dhe ky eshte progjenitori i shqiptareve.

Nje tjeter progjenitor, i HELENEVE kesaj rradhe , quhej YLL-os

Yllejte(apo hyllejte), race ilire, te prejardhur prej Yllit i biri i Herakliut(Herkulit legjendar) dhe Melites te lumit Aigaos. Ketu, dua te ndalem pak, per te konfirmuar se
1. Fjala Yll, shfaqet shqip dhe rrenja e fjales eshte pikerisht fjala shqip. Format Yllė dhe Ylli, marrin prapashtesat e rases dhe numrit perkates si mbivendosje.
2. Yllejte jane ilire, dhe si rrjedhim dhe djali i Herkulit, qe eshte protogjeneze e tyre.
3. Keta ilire, e therresain qytetin e tyre Yllė(greqishte e vjeter) Ylli(greqishte e re). Sido qe te lexohet, keshtu nje qytet, mund ta therriste vetem nje race, SHQIPTARET.
₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪
Ὑλλεῖς, ἔθνος Ἰλλυρικόν , Ὑπὲρ δὲ τοὺς Ὕλλους Λιβυρνοὶ καί τινες Ἴστροι λεγόμενοι Θρᾷκες.
Καὶ τὸ θηλυκὸν Ὕλλις. Πρόκειται Χεῤῥόνησος Ὑλλικὴ μάλιστα Πελοποννήσου,
ὥς φασι, πεντεκαίδεκα πό- λεις ἔχουσα παμμεγέθεις οἰκουμένας.
₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪
Vete fjala Yll-os ka shumė gjasa tė burojė prej fjalės ύλος qe pėrseri do tė thote (p)yll=pemė
Yll-osi, mbahet si patriarku i Ilireve dhe Heleneve te vjeter. Ishte ai qė i dha jetė fisit tė B-YLLI-neve, ose Ὑλλεῖς(Byllinoi) e cila eshte shume e ngjashme ne strukture me vete fjalen Ἰλλυριοί-Iliret.
Te gjithe keta emra jane ekujvalente te njeri- tjetrit:
Epirus=Albania=Arboria=Illyria=PYLLORIA pra vendi i pyllit, kurse njerezit e tij, njerezit e pyllit, qe ndoshta perfaqėsohej me LISIN, drurin e Zeusit, simbol i besimit dhe fuqise.
Per me teper lexoni:*************
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i vjetėr 29-11-2013, 01:09   #2
SERAFIM DILO
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Gjendja bazė Pėrgjigje e: Epir, emri i vjetėr i Shqipėrisė

Eshte titull i dale me shekuj vones.
Qe emri Epir eshte me i vjetri i shqiperise,eshte diēka e ditur,si nga hartat antike apo edhe nga fjaloret e vjeter epiriot,ku dihet se kur permenden jane te shkur shqip.

Ideja qe Shqiperia ishte e formuar nga dy popuj si iliret e epiriotet,ishte nje ide e vertet,e zgjuar.Ndersa ideja qe epiriotet jane ilire me duket e veshtire per tu vertetuar.Dhe nuk eshte as e zgjuar,se sot nuk do flisnim per vorio-epirin,por do flisnim per qendrat shqiptare siē ka qene Janina.
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i vjetėr 29-11-2013, 03:15   #3
ZET
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Gjendja bazė Re: Epir, emri i vjetėr i Shqipėrisė

Citim:
Postimi origjinal ėshtė bėrė nga Mandi Shiko postimin

Post Pyrrus, Achillis filius, amisso per absentiam Troianis temporibus paterno regno in his locis consedit: qui Pyrridae primo, postea Epirotae dicti sunt.
Julianus

Jo vetem Julianus, por dhe Straboni dhe Plutarku, deshmojne, qe Epiri e morri emrin nga Pirro i biri i Akilit, qė erdhi dhe u vendos ne kete vend , menjehere pas luftes se Trojes.
Qysh erdhi dhe u vendos? Pse ku kishte jetuar me pare Akili, i jati i Pirros, apo Peleu i jati i Akilit? Ne hene? Ne Thesali ata qene mbreter, ne dac quajeni dhe Mesali ose Molosi, se jane e njejta gje. Interesante eshte se Mesalia/Thesalia kishte ushtare Mirmidonet. Me demek Sparta kishte ushtare Spartane, Troja ushtare Trojane, Phyrghia kishte Phyrgiane kurse Thesalia/Molosia kishte Mirmidone!

Citim:
Shteti i pare i Epirit quhej Molosi, qe shtrihet aty ku eshte Myzeqeja sot(sipas Gjon Muzakit) dhe ne gjuhen shqipe do te thote PYLLORIA, qe ndoshta jo per rastesi, rrenja e saj perputhet perkatesisht me fjalet Latine dhe Italiane:

Arbor(Lat)—-Arbėria
Qysh Molosia qe shteti i pare i Epirit? C'jane keto pasaktesira te ralla qe shkruhen? Epiri i Vjeter me sa di une fillonte nga Montenegro/Mati e vazhdonte gjer ne Vjose/malet e Vetetimave te Himares, ndersa Epiri i Ri shtrihej nga Vjosa deri ne jug te Parges dhe Prevezes. Kjo, qe ne kohe te Diokletianit.

Nje nga burimet qe verteton kete jane 6 peshkopet nga Dardania, Epirusi i ri dhe Epirusi i vjeter qe kane marre pjese ne Keshillin e Sardikes ne 343-344 AD.
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i vjetėr 29-11-2013, 18:14   #4
yllbardh
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Gjendja bazė Pėrgjigje e: Epir, emri i vjetėr i Shqipėrisė

Citim:
Postimi origjinal ėshtė bėrė nga Mandi Shiko postimin
Nje tjeter progjenitor, i HELENEVE kesaj rradhe , quhej YLL-os

Yllejte(apo hyllejte), race ilire, te prejardhur prej Yllit i biri i Herakliut(Herkulit legjendar) dhe Melites te lumit Aigaos. Ketu, dua te ndalem pak, per te konfirmuar se
1. Fjala Yll, shfaqet shqip dhe rrenja e fjales eshte pikerisht fjala shqip. Format Yllė dhe Ylli, marrin prapashtesat e rases dhe numrit perkates si mbivendosje.
2. Yllejte jane ilire, dhe si rrjedhim dhe djali i Herkulit, qe eshte protogjeneze e tyre.
3. Keta ilire, e therresain qytetin e tyre Yllė(greqishte e vjeter) Ylli(greqishte e re). Sido qe te lexohet, keshtu nje qytet, mund ta therriste vetem nje race, SHQIPTARET.
₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪
Ὑλλεῖς, ἔθνος Ἰλλυρικόν , Ὑπὲρ δὲ τοὺς Ὕλλους Λιβυρνοὶ καί τινες Ἴστροι λεγόμενοι Θρᾷκες.
Καὶ τὸ θηλυκὸν Ὕλλις. Πρόκειται Χεῤῥόνησος Ὑλλικὴ μάλιστα Πελοποννήσου,
ὥς φασι, πεντεκαίδεκα πό- λεις ἔχουσα παμμεγέθεις οἰκουμένας.
₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪
Vete fjala Yll-os ka shumė gjasa tė burojė prej fjalės ύλος qe pėrseri do tė thote (p)yll=pemė
Yll-osi, mbahet si patriarku i Ilireve dhe Heleneve te vjeter. Ishte ai qė i dha jetė fisit tė B-YLLI-neve, ose Ὑλλεῖς(Byllinoi) e cila eshte shume e ngjashme ne strukture me vete fjalen Ἰλλυριοί-Iliret.
Te gjithe keta emra jane ekujvalente te njeri- tjetrit:
Epirus=Albania=Arboria=Illyria=PYLLORIA pra vendi i pyllit, kurse njerezit e tij, njerezit e pyllit, qe ndoshta perfaqėsohej me LISIN, drurin e Zeusit, simbol i besimit dhe fuqise.
Per me teper lexoni:*************
Ylli ėshtė njė nga simbolet e lashta politeiste tė Ilirėve, kėtė e gjejmė tė simbolizuar te dielli ose diylli si njė nga perėnditė Ilire. Pastaj yllin e gjejmė edhe nė emrin e njė nga prijėsit Dardan nė formėn Bardhyll dhe gjithashtu edhe tek Dorianėt qė pushtojnė gati tėrė Greqinė antike ku prijėsi i tyre kishte emrin Ylli qė nė formėn e greqizuar merr formėn Hyllos.
Duke u nisur nga Bardhylli shofim se emrit yll i'u ėshtė bashkangjitur njė veti pėrshkruese si i bardhė atėherė nuk ėshtė edhe aq larg qė edhe vetė emri Ilirė mundė tė rrjedhė nga njė formė e emrit Yll i ri, ku si nė formėn e shkruar greke dhe po ashtu edhe latine kemi formėn Illyria -os gjė qė na bėnė tė mendojmė se nga pamundėsia e shqiptimit korrekt tė emrit tė Ilirėve bėhet ndryshimi nga Ylliria nė Illyria.
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i vjetėr 30-11-2013, 00:16   #5
Meridian
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Gjendja bazė Pėrgjigje e: Re: Epir, emri i vjetėr i Shqipėrisė

Citim:
Postimi origjinal ėshtė bėrė nga ZET Shiko postimin
Qysh erdhi dhe u vendos? Pse ku kishte jetuar me pare Akili, i jati i Pirros, apo Peleu i jati i Akilit? Ne hene? Ne Thesali ata qene mbreter, ne dac quajeni dhe Mesali ose Molosi, se jane e njejta gje. Interesante eshte se Mesalia/Thesalia kishte ushtare Mirmidonet. Me demek Sparta kishte ushtare Spartane, Troja ushtare Trojane, Phyrghia kishte Phyrgiane kurse Thesalia/Molosia kishte Mirmidone!



Qysh Molosia qe shteti i pare i Epirit? C'jane keto pasaktesira te ralla qe shkruhen? Epiri i Vjeter me sa di une fillonte nga Montenegro/Mati e vazhdonte gjer ne Vjose/malet e Vetetimave te Himares, ndersa Epiri i Ri shtrihej nga Vjosa deri ne jug te Parges dhe Prevezes. Kjo, qe ne kohe te Diokletianit.

Nje nga burimet qe verteton kete jane 6 peshkopet nga Dardania, Epirusi i ri dhe Epirusi i vjeter qe kane marre pjese ne Keshillin e Sardikes ne 343-344 AD.

This is truly a bombshell. I got a chuckle out of that. Golly, I cannot believe I avoided for so long time to participate with Albanian nationalists who have a hankering to tear down scientific thesis and build anew which fits to their nationalist agenda. For the life of me I don't get this persistence on Epirus in spite of numerous evidences that its people was Greek from the very outset. Without going too far, even the most entitled historians on Illyrians strenuously reject any Illyrian element on Epirotans, let alone Macedonians. Both Wilkes and Marjeta Sasel Kos are mildly supportive to the overwhelming Greek being of Epirotes and the literary evidences at our disposal detailed fairly well the Greekness of this region through and through. I am really fed up with XIXth centuries hypothesis according to which Epirotes were some kind of Illyrians namely proto-Albanians. The height of irony is that some Albanian net-warriors who ain't adept of antiquity and even worse have only a smattering on history claim that Apeiros was Illyrian. I would not go as far as to believe that even your famous historians at the helm of academia are doing their best to keep alive this myth. I don't speak Albanian and the online translator gives a rather poor translation of the above mentioned comment. It says that modern Albania reside within old Epirus whereas New Epirus consist of lands jutting from Aos to Ambracia. Get it straight dude. New Epirus (or more more accurately Epirus nova) encompassed modern Albania, while Epirus Vetus was made out of Epirus proper (as it is defined in ancient times). you're free to embrace whatever theory you want but the matter of fact is that Greekness of Epirotans is a common-held view.
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i vjetėr 30-11-2013, 00:43   #6
yllbardh
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Gjendja bazė Pėrgjigje e: Epir, emri i vjetėr i Shqipėrisė

Gjuha e forumit ėshtė Shqipja nuk lejohet pėrdorimi i gjuhėve tė tjera nė Forum.

Google-pėrkthe kėtė e cila ėshtė njė ndėr krye-rregullat e forumit. Pėrndryshe shko nga keni ardhur!!!
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i vjetėr 30-11-2013, 00:45   #7
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Gjendja bazė Pėrgjigje e: Epir, emri i vjetėr i Shqipėrisė

Yllbardh, pajtohem me tye, ky djaloshi po pohon qe nuk e flet gjuhen shqipe, kurse ne profil te tije eshte gjithqka ne gjuhen shqipe, pra me moto, me vendbanim, blla blla.
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And what's this shit about us meant to be together?
That type of shit'll make me not want us to meet each other
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i vjetėr 30-11-2013, 00:48   #8
yllbardh
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Gjendja bazė Pėrgjigje e: Epir, emri i vjetėr i Shqipėrisė

Me siguri ndonjė nga ata shpirtė-shiturit grekofil tė cilėt janė mė tė rrezikshėm se edhe vetė grekėt....
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i vjetėr 30-11-2013, 01:25   #9
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Gjendja bazė Pėrgjigje e: Epir, emri i vjetėr i Shqipėrisė

Citim:
Postimi origjinal ėshtė bėrė nga yllbardh Shiko postimin
Me siguri ndonjė nga ata shpirtė-shiturit grekofil tė cilėt janė mė tė rrezikshėm se edhe vetė grekėt....
Ose e ka mesuar historine jashte shqiperise
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i vjetėr 30-11-2013, 18:08   #10
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Gjendja bazė Pėrgjigje e: Epir, emri i vjetėr i Shqipėrisė

Disa mendime te historianeve te ndryshem mbi emrin EPIR dhe kuptimi me te cilen eshte perdorur ky emer fillimisht


Emri EPIR nuk eshte perdorur qe ne fillim per te emertuar zonen bregdetare ne veri te gjirit te Ambrakise me kuptimin dhe hapesiren qe i eshte dhene sot.

Homer e permend shume here emrin Epeiros, II. 2, 635. Od. 14, 100. (shiko. Oberhumer 239) 18, 84.-24, 376. Hom. Hymn. 6, 22-4, 130. Herod. 8, 44, 1. dhe me kete ai ka parasysh Ithaken perballe Akarnaniens.
Megjithate Homeri nuk e permend emrin Epir as ne lidhje me Dodonen, e cila ne kete kohe shtrihej deri ne detin Jon dhe as ne lidhje me fisin e Thesproteve, i cili me vone do te merrte emrin plotesues si fis epirot. Keshtu, megjithese Thesprotet jetojne ne bregdet, ata nuk percaktohen nga Homeri si Epirote, por vetem me emrin e fist te tyre, Thesprote. Homeri e permend emrin Epir ne lidhje me Ambrakine dhe Amphilokien, me kuptimin si vende tokesore (kontinetale) perballe ishullit Erythia. Me vone do te jete Strabo qe do shpreh mendimin e shtrirjes se Epirit nga malet e Akrokeraunit deri ne Akarnanien, nderkohe qe Homer e lidh vetem me Akarnanien dhe me nje kuptim te caktuar „vend kontinetal“ perballe ishullit.

Edhe Hekataio nuk do te permend emrin Epir kur pershkruan shtrirjen dhe kufijte e fisit te Moloseve dhe Dodonasve.

Emri Epir ka patur fillimisht kuptimin si nje percaktim i pergjithshem i nje vendi ne bregdet, ne toke (kontinet, jo ne ishull) i cili shikohet nga detaret apo eshte i dallueshem nga banoret e ishujve.
Emri Epir eshte perdorur me kuptimin toke (jo det apo uje), me kuptimin kontinet, me kuptimin „e nje hapesire shume te madhe tokesore“, si dhe me kuptimin „nje pjese e rruzullit tokesor“.
p.sh. Pyth. 9, 8 e quan Afriken ose me mire te themi Libyen nje pjese te tokes (deutsh. Erdteil) (rruzullit te tokes). Me kete kuptim emri Epir do te perdoret deri ne kohen e Aristotelit si dhe me vone.

Edhe Herodoti do te perdore emrat e fiseve te Moloseve dhe Thesproteve, por nuk i lidh ata me emrin Epir apo epirot. Edhe kur Heodot do te flase per Dodonen dhe viziten qe beri atje (2, 52) nuk e lidh emrin e Dodones me nje percaktim te tille, Epir. Gjuhes se perdorur nga Herodoti i kushtohet ne kete rast nje rendesi e vecante, duke patur parasysh vemendjen e vecante qe ai u kushtonte ketyre te dhenave. Nese banoret e vendit do ta percaktonin veten e tyre me emrin Epirote, apo vendin e tyre me emrin Epir, apo do te quheshin prej grekeve, apo prej fiseve te tjera qe i rrethonin si Epirote, nuk mund te mendohet qe Herodoti do te anashkalonte nje te dhene kaq te rendesishme, sidomos nese ajo do te ishte shprehje e nje lidhje politke, apo percaktimi politik qe shprehte nje organizim te caktuar shteteror. Nderkohe qe Herodoti pershkruan me hollesi fiset e tjera qe gjendeshin perreth Moloseve dhe Thesprove si Thesalet, Iliret, Maqedonet.
Emrin Hperiotai ai e perdor me kuptimin si banore te tokes per ta dalluar nga banoret e ishullit. Herodoti e ka perdorur kete emer edhe per te percaktuar vende ne Azi, sidomos kur pershkruan hapesirat medha tokesore ku sundonin mbreterite e medha te kohes.
Edhe Xenofon me vone duke u mbeshtetur tek Herodoti dhe me vone edhe Isokrates do ta perdore kete fjale per te pershkruar mbreterite e Azise se vogel, ne hapesirat e tyre territoriale, te cilat mund te kuptohen si hapesira jashtezakonisht te medha ku ata shtrinin sundimin e tyre. Ne kete rast perdoret emertimi Epir.

Pra emri Eperios nuk percakton nje kolektiv te caktuar, por perdoret gjithmone i lidhur vetem me emrin e fisit apo te nje qyteti te caktuar qe tregon nese eshte nga kontineti apo nga ishulli. i cili mund te ishte ne Ballkan, Itali, ne Afrike apo ne Azi. Nje percaktim si epirot, apo Epirus si kolektiv eshte deri ne kohet e vona i panjohur. P.sh. Mytilenaier permend nje qytet ne Troje me emrin Tragasos dhe e emerton Epeiros, por me kuptimin qe ky qytet ndodhet ne bregdetin e Azise se Vogel.
Pra emri perdoret me kuptimin “Banore te kontinetit”.

Keshtu qe emri Epirus deri ne shek. E 5. – 4. p.e.s. perdoret me kuptimin toke, kontinet, hapesire e madhe tokesore, sundim ne nje hapesire te madhe, perdoret gjithmone i lidhur me vendin qe pershkruan, ne Azi, Afrike, Itali si dhe per Bregdetin Jonian per ta dalluar nga ishujt perballe etj.

Nje mendim tjeter per emrin e Epirit eshte kuptimi „ufer“ me kuptimin „breg“,
Sipas disa gjuhetareve te tjere mund te kete patur edhe kuptimin „vend shkembor, i thepisur dhe me vone mori kuptimin breg“. Nje tjeter e lidh me fjalen armene ap“n = bregdet.

Edhe ne kete kuptim ruhet ne shqip fjala “e eperme”, me kuptimin vend i larte, ose qe dallohet nga deti, eshte vend i ngritur, vend me reliev”

Edhe emri babait te Libys, Hpeiros nuk eshte gje tjeter vecse personifikim i tre masave te medha kontinetale nga te cilat kane rrjedhur edhe emrat e kontineteve libys, Europos Asios.

Deri ne kohen e Philipit te Maqedonise Epirit nuk do ti kushtohet shume vemendje ne histori, me perjashtim te disa permendjeve te vecanta. Ai do te terheq vemendjen e historise pas marteses se Filipit te Maqedonise me Olympian nga dera e fisit te Moloseve, dhe vecanerisht me sundimin e Pirros.
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i vjetėr 30-11-2013, 18:49   #11
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This is truly a bombshell. I got a chuckle out of that. Golly, I cannot believe I avoided for so long time to participate with Albanian nationalists who have a hankering to tear down scientific thesis and build anew which fits to their nationalist agenda. For the life of me I don't get this persistence on Epirus in spite of numerous evidences that its people was Greek from the very outset. Without going too far, even the most entitled historians on Illyrians strenuously reject any Illyrian element on Epirotans, let alone Macedonians. Both Wilkes and Marjeta Sasel Kos are mildly supportive to the overwhelming Greek being of Epirotes and the literary evidences at our disposal detailed fairly well the Greekness of this region through and through. I am really fed up with XIXth centuries hypothesis according to which Epirotes were some kind of Illyrians namely proto-Albanians. The height of irony is that some Albanian net-warriors who ain't adept of antiquity and even worse have only a smattering on history claim that Apeiros was Illyrian. I would not go as far as to believe that even your famous historians at the helm of academia are doing their best to keep alive this myth. I don't speak Albanian and the online translator gives a rather poor translation of the above mentioned comment. It says that modern Albania reside within old Epirus whereas New Epirus consist of lands jutting from Aos to Ambracia. Get it straight dude. New Epirus (or more more accurately Epirus nova) encompassed modern Albania, while Epirus Vetus was made out of Epirus proper (as it is defined in ancient times). you're free to embrace whatever theory you want but the matter of fact is that Greekness of Epirotans is a common-held view.
typical gayreek propaganda/lies


greek propaganda is so funny and stupid.

hey gay minoriteti, paraardhsit e tu siriane qe e quani veten greke erdhen ne gjirokaster e sarande si argate te bejlereve shqiptare.


greqia e lashte fillonte nga gjiri i ambrakise e poshte, por greqia e lashte ama, jo ju te ashtuquajturit gayreeks te sotem, ju jeni b.... nga turqia, siria, dhe egjipti, sigurisht te ortodoksizuar, me thuaj ti mua c'lidhje ka zeusi me ortodoksine????

adesso vai a fanculo che č tardi.
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i vjetėr 01-12-2013, 13:57   #12
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Gjendja bazė Pėrgjigje e: Epir, emri i vjetėr i Shqipėrisė

Chassiotis Dimitrios (1846-1897),professor , Athens University.


[IMG]http://books.google.com/books?id=NG4...3%2C101&edge=0[/IMG]

Ήπειρον' Αλβανίαν ύπολαμβάνων ,τούς δ Ήπειρώτας ''οπαδούς του άετου'' του Ζότι, του δωδωναίου Διός- Σκιπιτάρ, σκίπεα .

Epir in Albanian means 'followers of eagle' of Zoti [God] , the Dodonean God - Skipetar ,Skipja[Eagle}.

Albanian Chams call the eagle 'IPE'.
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i vjetėr 01-12-2013, 14:03   #13
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Chassiotis Dimitrios (1846-1897),professor , Athens University.


http://books.google.com/books?id=NG4...3%2C101&edge=0


Ήπειρον' Αλβανίαν ύπολαμβάνων ,τούς δ Ήπειρώτας ''οπαδούς του άετου'' του Ζότι, του δωδωναίου Διός- Σκιπιτάρ, σκίπεα .

Epir in Albanian means 'followers of eagle' of Zoti [God] , the Dodonean God - Skipetar ,Skipja[Eagle}.

Albanian Chams call the eagle 'IPE'.
Nga cili liber eshte marr ky?

Po fjala Skipetar sikur u formua kur u be ndarja fetare midis Shqiptareve lol
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i vjetėr 02-12-2013, 01:58   #14
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greek propaganda is so funny and stupid.
No offence an' all, but, you're fucked in the head, right? You can not handle any argument that goes against what's been bred into you by Hoxha's propaganda. Even your historians were quite cautious in claiming Epirus until some halfwits stirred up the flame of nationalism. Whether you like it or not, the view that the ancient Epirotes were Greek-speaking is accepted fact. Hammond's work did much to articulate the issues around this but the discovery of clear epigraphic evidence (no, not by Hammond) of their unique Greek dialects - belonging to the so-called 'north-west' group of Greek - has put the matter beyond doubt.

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paraardhsit e tu siriane qe e quani veten greke erdhen ne gjirokaster e sarande si argate te bejlereve shqiptare.
You're really deluding yourself if you believe that Albanians were the primitive stock of Epirus while all the Greeks came lately from elsewhere. The sources are very clear; there are a multitude of accounts detailing the arrival of the Albanians and the distress this invariably caused to the local Greeks. On the basis of contemporary accounts we have a good picture of the nature of the Albanian entry into various regions of the Greek world (whether as invited cultivator settlers or unwelcome pillaging invaders) and we also have a fairly accurate account of the progress of this Albanian migration (although certain minor details still generate some debate). When examining the sources, it becomes pretty bloody patently obvious that the Albanians advanced from regions north of Epirus and entered the old Greek world from about the early thirteenth century. This is a conclusion hard to avoid and is accepted by all authorities in this area of study (presumably except Albanian ones).

As you know the Byzantine chronicles mention Albanians very seldom. The very first accounts speaks of Abanians only in the nearby of Dyrachium where they maintained some distinct identity from the rest of Byzantine subjects. I am inclined to adhere the Illyrian origin of Albanians though your early homeland reside presumably in more northerly areas (Dardania, Moesia or Dacia Mediterreana). As I argued above, Albanian presence trickled south of Shkumbin river only in XIII century due to the decay of Byzantine rule. History afford no record of any arrival of Greeks at that time, so we may plainly surmise their continuous presence in most of Epirus.

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greqia e lashte fillonte nga gjiri i ambrakise e poshte, por greqia e lashte ama,
Don't talk such a drivel you slimy little weasel . Ancients never put Epirotes on the same pair with the Illyrians. Moreover, most of sources drew a sharp line between Epirotes and Illyrians. Suffice to say is that when Illyrians led by Teuta encroached upon Epirus, its cities (like Phoenicia) were expressively called ''Hellenic'' which dismiss any Illyrian element out there. Aristotle with his insightful take considered Epirus as primordial Hellas. According to him, ancient Greeks spilled from Dodona before they poured over Greece. So Epirus not only was throughly Greek during classical period, but it was the very ancient cradle of Hellenism whether you like it or not,.

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Edhe Hekataio nuk do te permend emrin Epir kur pershkruan shtrirjen dhe kufijte e fisit te Moloseve dhe Dodonasve.
I am scratching my head trying to grasp what is your point? We all agree that Epirus as a term is acquired very lately and as such does not infer any ethnic origin. But the problem ain't here. Which language was first spoken in Epirus? It requires some blindness to not see the preponderance of Greek toponymes all over Epirus. If you ever decide to stumble upon epigraphic findings, you will find some insignificant Illyrian names (although their origin is shrouded in mystery). Antonin Bartonek of the Academia Prague (Czechoslovak Academy of Sciences) in his 'Classification of the West Greek dialects at the time about 350 BC (published in 1972)' - such an elegant title - quite casually and quite naturally treats the dialects of Epirus as a normal member of this group (despite them being comparatively less well documented that the others).inscriptions do in fact exist within Epirus (proper) from at least the early fourth century BC that clearly and unequivocally attest to the native NW Greek speech of the Epirote tribes. This view is pretty much universally held amongst experts in the relevant field.

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Edhe ne kete kuptim ruhet ne shqip fjala “e eperme”, me kuptimin vend i larte, ose qe dallohet nga deti, eshte vend i ngritur, vend me reliev”
Another far-fetched hypothesis which has no legs to stand on. The etomology of Epirus has been estabilished beyond any doubt and it plainly means ''hinterland' as opposed from Corcyra and its adjeceant islands. Ancient geographers who knew well the geography of Epirus never called its inhabitants as Illyrians. In delineating its boundaries, ancients (Hecateus and Strabo) mentioned ''Illyrian mountains" which stretched out of Epirus. Had it been Epirus Illyrian from the very outset, then how come that Illyrians were confined only in lake Ohrid area but not in south?

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Ήπειρον' Αλβανίαν ύπολαμβάνων ,τούς δ Ήπειρώτας ''οπαδούς του άετου'' του Ζότι, του δωδωναίου Διός- Σκιπιτάρ, σκίπεα
Why do you show such inclination toward old quaint ideas upheld by some XIXth century writers? They carry little weight on the linguistic situation of Epirus in ancient times. Greek archeaologists have abudantely found inscriptions in Molossia (Molossian decrees) which indicate that Greek was the original patois of people and not an imported official language as your historians want to make it out. Most of the names are purely Greek and they are recorded prior to Thucydides who called them ''barbarians''. If we corraborate both facts, it become patently obvious that Greek was spoken from times immemorial in Epirus.
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i vjetėr 02-12-2013, 03:43   #15
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Gjendja bazė Pėrgjigje e: Epir, emri i vjetėr i Shqipėrisė

Meridian, it is bothering to read resumes of ignorance like the one above, potentially perpetuated by religious system elevated into a state's governance since the middle ages. It is even more disturbing when foreign subjects barge in some other country's domain and start indecently offending the forum members, firstly by ignoring the Albanian as the chosen default language, and secondly by using dirty vocabulary. Perhaps, that reflects the 'Greek' way of doing business over the centuries. But, is has to change.

There is plenty of illustrated material provided in this forum about:

1. The fact that ‘Albania’ is a name adopted by the Anjouine in early in the past millennium to identify certain areas of Illyricum. The other Albanias you are talking about may have commonalities, but none for the reasons you state.
2. Albanians who call themselves Shqipetar and Arberesh not long ago, have produced the most known leaders of what is nowadays recognized as the Roman /Byzantine Empire. Beside the illustrious leaders produced by the Dardanian or Herculean house dynasties, the rest were perpetrators and destroyers of the entire system.
3. There is no language in Europe that surpasses Albanian in depth or antiquity. The work of Homer requested much more than the borrowed Syrian-Egyptian vocabulary that superposed onto the Albanian language created the 'Greek' euphemism.
4. About Epirus. A new cycle called "Urim dhe Thumim..." in this forum will illustrate my point of view. Please, provide your commentary there.

PS. I am not sure what either 'Greek' or 'Helen' means in your sacred language. Care to provide your etymology? Please, do not start with Helenus, son of Priam who married Andromache in the land of Achilles, or that Greek are the Greeks because Homer translation talks about it.

By the way, what is an Illyrian as opposed to an Epirot (Jeez, it should have been Epirisitis, isn’t it?)? No need to tell us where each dwelled. It is already detailed by Author in several topics such as ‘Kapelja Frigjiane’ etc., along with the relevant numismatic explanation and samples by tribe.

Thanks for participating.
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i vjetėr 02-12-2013, 03:55   #16
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Edhe keto pyetje Meridian:

Cili nga keta, Pyrrus-Neoptolemus-Aleksander eshte emertim 'Greek' dhe c'do te thote?

Cili eshte emri i vjeter i Antipatrea, para se ta merrte Cassandri?
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i vjetėr 02-12-2013, 08:17   #17
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No offence an' all, but, you're fucked in the head, right? You can not handle any argument that goes against what's been bred into you by Hoxha's propaganda. Even your historians were quite cautious in claiming Epirus until some halfwits stirred up the flame of nationalism. Whether you like it or not, the view that the ancient Epirotes were Greek-speaking is accepted fact. Hammond's work did much to articulate the issues around this but the discovery of clear epigraphic evidence (no, not by Hammond) of their unique Greek dialects - belonging to the so-called 'north-west' group of Greek - has put the matter beyond doubt.



You're really deluding yourself if you believe that Albanians were the primitive stock of Epirus while all the Greeks came lately from elsewhere. The sources are very clear; there are a multitude of accounts detailing the arrival of the Albanians and the distress this invariably caused to the local Greeks. On the basis of contemporary accounts we have a good picture of the nature of the Albanian entry into various regions of the Greek world (whether as invited cultivator settlers or unwelcome pillaging invaders) and we also have a fairly accurate account of the progress of this Albanian migration (although certain minor details still generate some debate). When examining the sources, it becomes pretty bloody patently obvious that the Albanians advanced from regions north of Epirus and entered the old Greek world from about the early thirteenth century. This is a conclusion hard to avoid and is accepted by all authorities in this area of study (presumably except Albanian ones).

As you know the Byzantine chronicles mention Albanians very seldom. The very first accounts speaks of Abanians only in the nearby of Dyrachium where they maintained some distinct identity from the rest of Byzantine subjects. I am inclined to adhere the Illyrian origin of Albanians though your early homeland reside presumably in more northerly areas (Dardania, Moesia or Dacia Mediterreana). As I argued above, Albanian presence trickled south of Shkumbin river only in XIII century due to the decay of Byzantine rule. History afford no record of any arrival of Greeks at that time, so we may plainly surmise their continuous presence in most of Epirus.



Don't talk such a drivel you slimy little weasel . Ancients never put Epirotes on the same pair with the Illyrians. Moreover, most of sources drew a sharp line between Epirotes and Illyrians. Suffice to say is that when Illyrians led by Teuta encroached upon Epirus, its cities (like Phoenicia) were expressively called ''Hellenic'' which dismiss any Illyrian element out there. Aristotle with his insightful take considered Epirus as primordial Hellas. According to him, ancient Greeks spilled from Dodona before they poured over Greece. So Epirus not only was throughly Greek during classical period, but it was the very ancient cradle of Hellenism whether you like it or not,.



I am scratching my head trying to grasp what is your point? We all agree that Epirus as a term is acquired very lately and as such does not infer any ethnic origin. But the problem ain't here. Which language was first spoken in Epirus? It requires some blindness to not see the preponderance of Greek toponymes all over Epirus. If you ever decide to stumble upon epigraphic findings, you will find some insignificant Illyrian names (although their origin is shrouded in mystery). Antonin Bartonek of the Academia Prague (Czechoslovak Academy of Sciences) in his 'Classification of the West Greek dialects at the time about 350 BC (published in 1972)' - such an elegant title - quite casually and quite naturally treats the dialects of Epirus as a normal member of this group (despite them being comparatively less well documented that the others).inscriptions do in fact exist within Epirus (proper) from at least the early fourth century BC that clearly and unequivocally attest to the native NW Greek speech of the Epirote tribes. This view is pretty much universally held amongst experts in the relevant field.



Another far-fetched hypothesis which has no legs to stand on. The etomology of Epirus has been estabilished beyond any doubt and it plainly means ''hinterland' as opposed from Corcyra and its adjeceant islands. Ancient geographers who knew well the geography of Epirus never called its inhabitants as Illyrians. In delineating its boundaries, ancients (Hecateus and Strabo) mentioned ''Illyrian mountains" which stretched out of Epirus. Had it been Epirus Illyrian from the very outset, then how come that Illyrians were confined only in lake Ohrid area but not in south?



Why do you show such inclination toward old quaint ideas upheld by some XIXth century writers? They carry little weight on the linguistic situation of Epirus in ancient times. Greek archeaologists have abudantely found inscriptions in Molossia (Molossian decrees) which indicate that Greek was the original patois of people and not an imported official language as your historians want to make it out. Most of the names are purely Greek and they are recorded prior to Thucydides who called them ''barbarians''. If we corraborate both facts, it become patently obvious that Greek was spoken from times immemorial in Epirus.
hey fuckin' sirian or turk or fuckin' turk karamanlis, gayreek, pezzo di merda.

plasi syt ketu shkerdhat

The Greeks call those people Illyrians who occupy the region beyond Macedonia and Thrace from Chaonia and Thesprotia to the river Ister (Danube). This is the length of the country. Its breadth is from Macedonia and the mountains of Thrace to Pannonia and the Adriatic and the foot-hills of the Alps. Its breadth is five days' journey and its length thirty -- so the Greek writers say. The Romans measured the country and found its length to be upward of 6000 stades and its width about 1200.
APPIANI
----------------------------------------------------------------

THUCYDIDES PERJASHTON EPIROTET NGA gayreek-et duke i quajtur ata barbare

The Hellenic troops with him consisted of the Ambraciots, Leucadians, and Anactorians, and the thousand Peloponnesians with whom he came; the barbarian of a thousand Chaonians, who, belonging to a nation that has no king, were led by Photius and Nicanor, the two members of the royal family to whom the chieftainship for that year had been confided. With the Chaonians came also some Thesprotians, like them without a king, [6] some Molossians and Atintanians led by Sabylinthus, the guardian of king Tharyps who was still a minor, and some Paravaeans, under their King Oroedus, accompanied by a thousand Orestians, subjects of King Antiochus and placed by him under the command of Oroedus. [7] There were also a thousand Macedonians sent by Perdiccas without the knowledge of the Athenians, but they arrived too late.

STRABO PERSERI I QUAN EPIROTET BARBARE=JO greke

Now Hecataeus of Miletus says of the Peloponnesus that before the time of the Greeks it was inhabited by barbarians. Yet one might say that in the ancient times the whole of Greece was a settlement of barbarians, if one reasons from the traditions themselves: Pelops {395} brought over peoples {396} from Phrygia to the Peloponnesus that received its name from him; and Danaüs {397} from Egypt; whereas the Dryopes, the Caucones, the Pelasgi, the Leleges, and other such peoples, apportioned among themselves the parts that are inside the isthmus--and also the parts outside, for Attica was once held by the Thracians who came with Eumolpus, {398} Daulis in Phocis by Tereus, {399} Cadmeia {400} by the Phoenicians who came with Cadmus, and Boeotia itself by the Aones and Temmices and Hyantes. According to Pindar, “there was a time when the Boeotian tribe was called “Syes.” {401} {402} Moreover, the barbarian origin of some is indicated by their names--Cecrops, Godrus, Aļclus, Cothus, Drymas, and Crinacus. And even to the present day the Thracians, Illyrians, and Epeirotes live on the flanks of the Greeks (though this was still more the case formerly than now); indeed most of the country that at the present time is indisputably Greece is held by the barbarians--Macedonia and certain parts of Thessaly by the Thracians, and the parts above Acarnania and Aetolia by the Thesproti, the Cassopaei, the Amphilochi, the Molossi, and the Athamanes--Epeirotic tribes.





The Illyrians, a large and mighty nation living on the Adriatic Sea, from the Po to the Ambracian Gulf, and northwards to the Danube. Strabo believes that this people spread westwards to Lake Constance, through Noricum and Vindelicia. He also asserts that the Pannonians stemmed from this people. Appian notes clearly that the Pannonians were Illyrians. The Istrians, Japodes, Dalmatae, Liburnians, Dardanians, Ardiaei, Autariates, in short, all the peoples down to the Ceraunian mountains are generally regarded as Illyrians. But they also inhabited wide reaches of Macedonia, Epirus and Thessaly.

Only a small portion of Macedonia was inhabited by the Greeks. The mass of the population was Illyrian and Thracian. The Dassaretae, the Lyncestae, the Bryges or Phrygians, the Pelagones, The Eordi, the Elimiotes, the Atintanes, the inhabitants of the region around Candavia, Pella, Edessa and Verva have all been expressly referred to as Illyrian. To a great extent, it was almost only the towns on the coast that had Greek inhabitants. The Macedonians had a language of their own that was also spoken in the regions along the Ionian Sea across from Corfu and, thus in Greek Illyria and Epirus.

There were also many non-Greek peoples in Epirus who, as noted above, spoke the Macedonian language, or the Illyrian language, which was probably the same thing.
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i vjetėr 02-12-2013, 08:27   #18
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Gjendja bazė Pėrgjigje e: Epir, emri i vjetėr i Shqipėrisė


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i vjetėr 02-12-2013, 08:36   #19
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Gjendja bazė Pėrgjigje e: Epir, emri i vjetėr i Shqipėrisė

Lazzaro Soranzo, L'Ottomanno, Ferrara 1598.

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i vjetėr 02-12-2013, 08:53   #20
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ka ca siriane si dimitris epikouris qe jane deri diku te sinqerte per rrenjet e tyre aziatike, jo te gjithe gayreek-et duan te behen me zor greke te lashte.
ky jevgu epikouris i ka kuptuar mire ca gjera.
ekskluzivisht ky post per meridianin, po s'besoj se do kuptoje akoma, e ka trurin byth fare.

by the way...

24 May 2012

THE SOCIO-CULTURAL ROOTS OF THE GREEK ECONOMIC CRISIS

Dimitris Epikouris

The economic crisis in Greece which threatens to act as a locomotive power that will force most of the countries in the European south to exit the Eurozone, has triggered many discussions and predictions concerning the future of Europe as an entity. Numerous analyses find their way to the media on a daily basis, all attempting to explain the repercussions of Greece’s inability to reform and lead itself to an economic growth that will eventually free the country from the constantly increasing need of borrowing money to satisfy its basic needs.

However, all those reports and economic analyses have something in common. They fail to deeply examine the socio-cultural roots of the greek crisis. If one does not take into account the idiosyncrasy and the psycho-synthesis of the modern Greek people, will just miss the point.

Modern Greece is by no means related either genetically or culturally to the ancient cosmos and the people who once occupied this land. The modern greeks are just an intermixture of Balkan tribes (Albanians/Arvanites, Slavs, Wlachs) which in the process of time mingled with northern africans, armenians and other tribes of Anatolia, not to mention the francs and the venetians who were also dominantly present in this land.

Those groups were mainly involved in agriculture and animal breeding. A significant number of them had been employed by the ottomans to serve in the army because the local inhabitants were hard natured and warlike.

During the Byzantium era, those tribes were christianized while the few remaining descendants of the ancient greeks who refused to convert to christianity were either persecuted and killed by the christian emperors or died of several plague waves that occurred quite frequently back in those days. Another factor that contributed to the reduction of the population was piracy. It is a well known fact that the city of Sparta had been almost abandoned and unoccupied for 400 years while Athens and especially the area around the Acropolis was a place for pasturing sheep.

The attempts to “Hellenize” those intermixed tribes were mainly made by European sovereign states which needed a protectorate to promote their interests. The geographic location of Greece is still considered as the connecting doorway between East and West. The European romantics who dreamed of reviving the ancient Hellenic cosmos through the mountain savages also bear a degree of responsibility for the false identity that was given to the modern Greeks.

The superfluous and simultaneously disastrous decision to name as “Hellenes” (Greeks) that intermixture of tribes eventually placed a very heavy burden upon them simply because they lacked the proper educational background that would enable them to develop the necessary awareness that would help them identify themselves with the ancient inhabitants of this land.




These mountainous hard natured shepherds were made to believe that they were not only the offsprings of the ancient Greeks but also the christian God's blessed people. Everyone can observe that there is no comparison between these people and the ancient Greeks. No resemblance whatsoever physically, aesthetically and mentally.

The Eastern Church was forcefully against any kind of education as it wanted its subservient believers not to read anything but the Bible. The role that the Church played during the years of the ottoman presence was catastrophic for the majority of the people because it was the main and the most effective collaborator of the sultan either through collecting taxes or contributing to the suppression of every revolt against the ottoman authority. The Church was surely rewarded by the Divan with a humongous amount of land enough to rank it as the biggest landowner of the country.

The confusing identity of being a Hellene and a christian at the same time still haunts most of the people in this land. Most of the people in Greece have been made to believe that they are the pure descendants of Pericles, Socrates, Leonidas and Alexander the Great while they consider it quite natural to be christian orthodox as well. Two completely conflicting worlds co-exist abnormally in the socio-cultural background of modern greeks.

The revolution of 1821 against the ottomans that eventually led to the formation of the modern Greek state couldn’t have been achieved without the contribution of the European superpowers of that era. The sea battle of Navarino that marked the creation of modern Greece reflects the need of the Europeans to use this land as their protectorate governed by regimes that were either appointed or imposed by the European financial interests. Modern Greece has always been victimized and exploited by the superpowers while its role in the sociopolitical arena has never been autonomous.

The modern Greek citizens who had never experienced the gifts of Renaissance, Enlightment and Industrialization remain culturally underdeveloped even today. Greece has been governed by the offsprings of the family clans that ruled the land right after the collapse of the byzantine empire and although it is true that democracy was born in this part of the world, it is not true that the ancestors of modern Greeks are the ones who first created it.




The Church continues to dominate the politics in this land. Greece is the last theocratic state in Europe. If someone wishes to have a career in politics, he had better "bow" to the local Church bosses first.

In the 50’s and 60’s thousands of modern Greeks were forced to abandon their villages and either migrate abroad or seek employment in the big city centers where factories were built and needed cheap labor. The countryside was abandoned and the cities experienced an unprecedented overpopulation that led to severe demographic and environmental problems since there was no urban planning (there isn’t one even today).

The rural depopulation, however, created another great problem that few politicians have dared to tackle: The disease of urbanism. The constant flow of villagers showed that the motives to abandon their villages were not only based on their need for employment but also on their desire to experience the “urban style” of living with a sense of hedonistic lust. Contrary to the US southerners who take pride in their heritage and their land, the greek villagers preferred to come to big city centers and work as industrial workers or clerks instead of remaining in their land and cultivating it. They believed that “easy living” can only be found in the big cities.

The military junta in 1967 encouraged the “love for urbanism” of the villagers even more.

Two main political parties emerged after the fall of the military junta. The “New Democracy” party and the “Panhellenic Socialist Party” also known as “PASOK”. The first one had a conservative approach and the second one a supposedly socialist one. Both of them, however, had one thing in common: They made sure that everything should be directly or indirectly controlled by the state. In order to achieve their goal which was no other than to remain in power as long as possible, they found a destructive way of doing that. Thus, the state was transformed into an enormous employment agency.

Those two political parties hired thousands of unqualified individuals to work in the public sector. The regimes borrowed money from the European Union to finance the fat salaries and the special privileges of their public servant armies. Prosperity in the private sector came only if it interweaved with the public one. No matter what somebody did, no matter what public service he wished to have, he simply couldn’t have it unless he bribed. Bureaucracy and corruption have always been interwoven.

The degree of corruption in modern Greece is by far higher than the one in many Asian, South American and African countries. The country stopped producing anything since ¼ of its workforce was employed by the state. Finding a job in the public sector became every young person’s dream. It was no longer important what academic credentials one had. What mattered was what kind of political connections he had so as to be placed somewhere in the public sector where he would be handsomely paid without doing anything! The populist rhetoric applied by both those political parties created a new kind of roman-like ethics among the people. Undoubtedly, this grotesque political system is a unique modern Greek invention. Having conservative (right wing, anti-communist) regimes with a Stalinist approach of implementing the authority of the state is something that can only be found in the country of Greece.







The modern Greeks are noted for having mastered the art of creating conspiracy theories. The whole world is supposedly plotting against them because of their racial "superiority".


John Maynard Keynes’ suggestion of “first stabilize and then reform” cannot find any application here because the Greek economy can never be stabilized as it overflows with useless and counterproductive public servants.

All the above mentioned facts may sound a bit surprising to someone from another western state. Well, nothing should be surprising, nothing at all.

It is impossible for the descendants of chicken and sheep thieves, who lived on top of mountains and inside caves, rarely took a shower, kidnapped their hick wives from their parents and robbed villages, to understand how civilized nations function not to mention to feel Europeans. It is also impossible for a nation that never experienced the gifts of Enlightment, Democracy and the Industrial Revolution to be able to adapt to the constantly evolving international economy.

If someone wonders why the rest European Union countries are so stiff against Greece, it is perhaps because they are ignorant of the real situation here. They lack the necessary knowledge to fully comprehend the socio-cultural roots of the modern greek state.

Greece will never be a purely European country. It can’t be. It doesn’t want to be.
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